Swing

[pieterv1]

Official topic in the Potential future feature Forum: viewtopic.php?t=206

Feel free to still write here in this topic for debates or larger discussions around the feature.

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Swing.. 'nuf said

I've seen swing getting mentioned briefly in the topic about tempo offset, but I think it deserves its own topic really.

The idea is to have adjustable (amount + division) swing for both Midi ports and analog clock out. It would be great to have for those devices that don't have a swing/shuffle feature built in. Like the TR-808, TR-606, but also modern examples like the Korg Volca's or Behringer TD-3, Pro-1, MS-1 just to name a few. Also any sequencer or device with built-in sequencer with analog cv clock would be able to be 'swinged'

With my TD-3 I was already able to achieve swing using my TR-8S and trust me, you need shuffled acid bass lines in your life.

[Simon]

Ok, nice to know about the devices that do not have swing, thanks for the list Pieter

I am generally against features that make the Midronome closer to the Multiclock (and it keeps getting closer and closer... It was never my intention but people keep asking for "multiclock features" ), I think it's nice that the devices are different, if people want can then decide what suits them best

But I'll consider it - let's see how many people want this, thank you for creating a topic about it

[gavibee]

+1
for swing/shuffle functionality please.

I understand why you wouldn't want to simply copy the Multiclock, but swing is a deal breaker for me and many other potential users.
You also use the Multiclock in your comparison table on your website so I think it's only natural people will want similar features!

Thanks again for all your hard work on this.
Looking forward to where it leads

gavibee

[Simon]

Hey gavin

That's a fair statement ha ha

Let's see how many people want this

Simon

[gavibee]

Thanks Simon.
Just had a crazy thought... as a quick win, what happens if you 'swing' the audio sync signal coming from your plug-in?!

[Simon]

That's actually a GREAT idea!! It would only work when the device is slave to a DAW unfortunately but it would actually work right out of the box
The only thing will be the tempo displayed on the device that will jump a bit (but I could probably detect it and improve that).

Question regarding swing: I've actually never done that so I am not sure "where" the swing is? Do you swing each 8th note like this?

Or is there a different way of doing this?

Cheers
Simon

[maxbrank]

+1 pour le swing !

Le swing est indispensable, ma tr808 en a furieusement besoin, sinon c'est trop straight, trop droit, manque de groove, et puis avoir un swing général c'est pratique pour contrôler le swing de tous les matos en un clin d'oeil.

Merci pour tout, bonne continuation, j'attends le Kickstarter !

[gavibee]

That's actually a GREAT idea!! It would only work when the device is slave to a DAW unfortunately but it would actually work right out of the box
The only thing will be the tempo displayed on the device that will jump a bit (but I could probably detect it and improve that).

Question regarding swing: I've actually never done that so I am not sure "where" the swing is? Do you swing each 8th note like this?

Greenshot 2022-09-23 07.13.28.png

Or is there a different way of doing this?

Cheers
Simon

Ah ok. Sorry. I should've explained in a little more detail than just, 'give me swing'!
Generally, when people use the term 'swing', it refers to 16th-notes. Although some do use 8th-notes as you describe, there's not many so I'd definitely aim to introduce 16th-note swing (or shuffle) before 8th-notes

So, 16th-note swing/shuffle is this:


... and all variations in between, which are usually expressed as a percentage.

Does that help?
Thanks for considering this - really appreciated.

Gav.

[gavibee]

Or you could also notate it like this:

[Simon]

Ha ha well now I am confused gavin

Your first image was an 8th note shuffle (same as mine - just a different way of writing it), and your second image was a 16th note shuffle... So which is it?

(I could also easily implement both with a setting to select but if you're saying everybody wants and expects only one of them, then it's probably complicating the things for no reason)

[gavibee]

Go with the second image notation. 16th-note swing is what most people will utilise, but great if you could implement both 16th and 8th note.

[maxbrank]

Of course we need swing for 16th and 8th notes, but i would say 8th is more common, so swing would be applied on odd 8th notes.
so on a classic Roland step sequencer made of 16 steps, swing will be applied on steps 3-7-11-15

[gavibee]

Of course we need swing for 16th and 8th notes, but i would say 8th is more common, so swing would be applied on odd 8th notes.
so on a classic Roland step sequencer made of 16 steps, swing will be applied on steps 3-7-11-15

Afraid I can't agree with that Max. For example, the swing/shuffle that the ERM Multiclock outputs and is part of the Behringer RD-8/RD-9 drum machines' sequencer is 16th-note. In other words, in a 16-step sequencer, all the even steps (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16) are delayed by a set amount, with all odd numbered steps landing bang on the quantisation grid.

[Simon]

Thanks max and noted about your TR808

Interesting discssion you guys are having - maybe an option to choose between 8th and 16th is not overkill at the end

But again if you are doing this with the DAW audio sync track, then you can simply decide

[maxbrank]

I said something stupid, it's the opposite of what I said: commonly the swing is in 16th but a swing in 8th can be very useful too.

[gavibee]

Thanks for clarifying Max Thought I was going nuts there for a few minutes!

So, Simon, do you think you'll be able to include swing/shuffle functionality, either at product launch or soon afterwards via firmware updates?

Cheers!
G.

[Simon]

Everything is possible Gavin

As long as the hardware is well thought - and it is - it's just a matter of time and effort, and in this case, what features the backers care most about. But this is definitely on the list of possibilities!

Cheers
Simon

[justmull]

Put me down for shuffle (16th notes) for sure. It's mainly useful on the din sync for the devices mentioned above but I do have an oddball midi drum machine (drumtraks) that ONLY shuffles 8th notes (it is so wack) so I'd probably use it for that as well. There are workarounds for the old machines where you double the incoming clock or time divisions on the machine and don't sequence on certain steps. Not very flexible but I've lived with it this long so not a deal breaker for me just nice to have.
And congrats on absolutely smashing that launch - was awesome to see!

[gavibee]

Hi Simon.
When do you think we'll be able to vote on new features, so you can see how many people want each one?

Thanks,
Gavin.

[Simon]

Hey Gavin
I think for now it's important I focus on the prototypes and get production started

The vote will come around January/february I am thinking, when I have time to start working on these

[gavibee]

Thanks for the info Simon - much appreciated.
All the best for the next few months!

[fmq75]

+1 for swing if possible. The multiclock comparison came up here but it is discontinued now anyway.

[Simon]

Thank you for voting ha ha

But don't worry I will put up a proper vote system soon. Both swing and clock shifting will be on the vote system

(I can see I wrote January/February above... yes things take time it will come but it will be in April )

Cheers
Simon

[gavibee]

Thanks Simon

[masi]

(I can see I wrote January/February above... yes things take time it will come but it will be in April )

Luckily for you you didn't give a year.

Masi

[Simon]

Yes with all the Midronomes getting to the backers I have had a lot on my hands, sorting out issue before I implement new features sounds more important - one thing at a time

[Lunaman06]

Currently to get a shuffle feeling in the Click, I made some a drum clips on my MC707 that do shuffle.

I do prefer the midi clock is not swinging/shuffling, should be stable as a rock. In my perspective.
But have swing(shuffle)in the click track and in Analog Trigger Out, that i see very useful.