Negative Offset/Shift/Latency

[Simon]

Hi all

I've been muching on this for a while, and I'm considering making a very small DIN-MIDI Adapter with 2 tiny knobs: one for positive delay and one for swing.

It will be a "mini-device" packed into an adapter, which will take any MIDI and delay it by x ms as well as add swing to the clock (I'm not sure if adding swing to any other message would make sense?). Imagine like this picture but with one side male and one side female, you plug it in the MIDI output of your device and then plug a normal MIDI Cable into it.

adapter.png (39.43 KiB) Viewed 14676 times

So instead of the original idea of an add-on module for the Nome this would be an adapter you could use with the Nome but also with any other device.

[MPrinsen]

That’s a great idea!

Still, would love to have a built in positive delay for any of the outputs of my Midronome without the need of an add on module!

[Simon]

Just FYI, one of the Nome II owners did a simple test recording the metronome and the audio output of a sampler to see how much delay there was between the sampler and the metronome.

Setup was:

Code: Select all

Nome II -> metronome -> audio input
Nome II -> Beatstep Pro -> Boss Sp-303 -> audio input

The two audio inputs ended having about 10ms difference, which was very stable. This is a great example where a negative delay of 10ms on the MIDI Clock would bring the two audio tracks together.

[Simon]

To this day I am considering whether such a feature in the Nome is really needed or not. It seems very very few machines have large internal delays (which is the only case you would need a "per-output" latency).

So I plan on using this post/topic to list the potential machines with large delays which would require such a feature. If you know any and can prove the large difference with other machines, please feel free to add them here.

• This post from Steven: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1044389 ... 6468764400 mentions the Oberheim DX Stretch with Electrongate midi kit which seems to have a 7-8ms extra delay compared to his CR-78

[fmq75]

To this day I am considering whether such a feature in the Nome is really needed or not. It seems very very few machines have large internal delays (which is the only case you would need a "per-output" latency).

So I plan on using this post/topic to list the potential machines with large delays which would require such a feature. If you know any and can prove the large difference with other machines, please feel free to add them here.

• This post from Steven: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1044389 ... 6468764400 mentions the Oberheim DX Stretch with Electrongate midi kit which seems to have a 7-8ms extra delay compared to his CR-78

Hi Simon

It‘s been a while since my last visit but i just wanted to check if anything has changed in this regard To avoid pesky midi jitter and latency i use analog clock whereever i can and my setup worked fine this way for a while. But now i bought a Roland TR8s (not here yet) and based on my own experiences with Roland stuff i started to look out again for options to preshift a midi clock. I still don‘t know why so few people voted for it when we had the chance to do so. It‘s not a topic when using DAWs cause they have such options but i‘m using an Oxi One as Master now and Logic pro only comes into play as the last step (recording). The Oxi is then clocked analog because jitter but that‘s another story The Oxi is great as a master but also missing an option to….you guess it

Here is a list of devices i did own and carefully tested. For most of them it‘s easy to find the confirmation via google (from other people). First three are linux based so they are computer in a box. Not a surprise they have latency. They are useless as slaves without additional“help“ but i assume people prefer to use them as a master and then there is no need to shift the clock arround. This i all via Midi DIN not even USB which i always avoid.

1. Maschine Plus
2.MPC One (means the mpc live must have this problrm as well)
2. Akai Force
4. Ableton Move (so i assume the push 3 is affected as well)

More examples

Rolands first three Boutiques have a 15ms latency via midi din. Not only sync but midi notes as well (they really screwed it up here).

JU-06
JX-03
JP-08

Then:

Roland T-8 which was a surprise cause it‘s a drummachine and a „mini 303“. Works great with analog clock (but without reset), not so much with midi.
Roland MC 101 (not much but it‘s there).

And a very popular new machine: The Roland TR-1000. Again, they screwed it up. Big time. It has huge latency as a slave (analog clock currently also not usable at this point afaik) and massive jitter when used as a master. I don‘t own it but the forums are full of complaints. In a hardware setup (slave) it‘s not usable without a multiclock (which many people do but this thing is still too“much“ for my case).

I would still say there is a place for a smaller machine than multiclock that does the trick of preshift a midiclock There must be more examples than i listed here, maybe i even forgot something that i did own myself.

[Simon]

Thank you for the long feedback

A lot of people think of the Nome as a "smaller mutliclock", because it is well, smaller, while in fact the Nome can do so much more than the multiclock. I guess the price difference also emphasizes this. Maybe we should sell it for double the price, then people would stop saying that

But yes at this point it is very clear that the offset is needed. We're already working on the adapter mentioned above, a small MIDI plug that you can put anywhere that will add extra latency, to make all machines have the same latency (and then you can compensate that overall latency with something like U-SYNC).

Simon

[fmq75]

Thank you for the long feedback

A lot of people think of the Nome as a "smaller mutliclock", because it is well, smaller, while in fact the Nome can do so much more than the multiclock. I guess the price difference also emphasizes this. Maybe we should sell it for double the price, then people would stop saying that

But yes at this point it is very clear that the offset is needed. We're already working on the adapter mentioned above, a small MIDI plug that you can put anywhere that will add extra latency, to make all machines have the same latency (and then you can compensate that overall latency with something like U-SYNC).

Simon

oh, i‘m not saying the Nome is a“small multiclock“. I know it does more but basically all i need is a preshifted clock in hardware for a more affordable price Interesting idea with the adapter! But i‘m not sure how it would help in my case. Is the following setup possible with your idea:

Nome is Master and sends analog clock to oxi one. From oxi i use all kinds of outputs (analog and midi) to other machines.

Nome is also sending midi clock out into the adapter and from there to a (drum)machine with latency. If i use a predelay on the adapter then, how would Nome know this and correct it for the audio clock out as well?

Thanks for your quick answer!