sync issues - ableton live with nome 2

[asender]

Hi, I've recently added the Nome 2 to my setup and I'm using it to sync my synths to Live 12.

Looking at my moog muse sequencer screen, I see that when I set the clock to 115 bpm in the nome, the muse clock has some jitter and moves between 115 and 114, is this normal?

When I created a MIDI clip in Live to trigger the arpeggiator, I couldn't get it to play on the grid, even though the MIDI is quantized. I'd like you to use MIDI in this case because it's a long arrangement for the sequencer and I want to be able to preform with the different parameters of the synths while it's playing, so I need to have my hands free.

I'm using OS 12.7.6 and Live 12.1.10 with u-sync.

Thanks to anyone who's willing to help

[Simon]

Hi Assi,

Thank you for asking here!

Yes the number "moving" between 115 and 114 is normal, it does not affect sync and is only caused by the way the Muse is computing the actual BPM number. In other words, there is no jitter in the actual clock (which is used to sequence things inside the Muse) but only in the way the BPM is calculated.
(and yes jitter in the clock would create the same thing but you will have to trust me that any clock coming out of the Nome has extremely low jitter, this has been proven and checked many times since the very beginning of the Nome)

Redgarding the issue, I am afraid it's all about the position of your MIDI clip in Ableton. As I've mentioned in my email, even if you use the Nome to forward the MIDI clip (which I would recommend either way), the MIDI will be forwarded when it is received, there is no "quantizing" on the MIDI for now.
(side note: I have been considering adding this as a feature for a while... not sure but it could make it to the device after FW 5.0, maybe )

So for now, my suggestion would be to experiment moving your clip in Ableton to make sure it starts on time. Hopefully if you keep your setup the same, this is a one-time thing and the arp will start on time every time.

Maybe someone has another idea on how to deal with MIDI Notes timing for arps? I've shared this topic on the Facebook Group as well - I'll copy/paste any answers I get there

Let us know how it goes
Simon

[Simon]

San Jetty from the FB Group came with some really good insights:

Looking at the moog forum this could be an issue of the muse itself, so i am not quite sure if it‘s „all“ about the nome ? Also: how is the muse note on arpeggiator triggered: by usb or midi ? is the nome clocking the muse with analog or midi clocks and how is the setting made in the muse itself ?
i have the matriarch and had a really difficult time with note on messages for aroeggiator triggering (analog clocked, note triggered per usb). lastly i could only manage this by adjusting midi track lanes (delay in the transporter menu in logic pro). not sure if this helps at all.
edit: some matriarch reported to have sorted it out by putting ableton in pattern mode.

[asender]

Okay,

some insights from today is that the arpeggiator is triggered better when I set the clock manually on the nome to the same BPM as the project on ableton, but without using u-sync. When I do this, the arpeggiator works fine.

I'm using the nome to send out the MIDI from ableton to the muse.

[SeleN]

hi, san from fb here. how do send note triggers ? usb or midi ? how do you drive the nome when not using usync, per usb clock or per the legacy midronome plugin ?

[Simon]

some insights from today is that the arpeggiator is triggered better when I set the clock manually on the nome to the same BPM as the project on ableton, but without using u-sync. When I do this, the arpeggiator works fine.

Interesting! Then I'll suggest you try syncing Ableton to the Nome over USB. See this article in the Ableton documentation section "Syncing Live to another device or application".

Simon

[Simon]

Hi Assi - I also just found this - viewtopic.php?t=325

The main idea is to use the tempo follower of Ableton to sync it to the Nome (sending the actual metronome - you could also use the ANLG output of the Nome, with the An.1 setting configured to '1 ).

I'd be very curious to hear if this works

Simon

[asender]

Hi guys,

I just tried used the external sync on live, but then I'm unable to play the project nor the nome this way.

I rather not revert to using an audio signal as my converter has all the inputs already taken, so this would be less than ideal for me.

As for what Selen was asking, I am sending midi to trigger the notes by using the nome midi ports. As of now I just have the muse follow the clock from midi in, which is sent by the nome. The nome is connected via USB to the computer, but I'm not doing anything to sync them. I just manually set the BPM on the nome to be the same as the one set on my project in ableton and it seems to be on time this way.

I've tried just sending an arpeggiated part to the muse via midi, and there seems to be a 1/128 note delay when i do that (with u-sync), which i assume is recording delay even though my input latency is 8.7 ms. without u-sync, when I do this workaround, the recording delay is a bit shorter, so it seems that u-sync is definitely introducing some sort of latency.
When I try to trigger the arpeggiator it misses the note changes by one note every time. so instead of changing note on the 1st note of the bar it only changes on the 2nd one. All this could also be the muse since it's having some stability issues, I'll run some test on my other synth soon.

[Simon]

Hi Assi

I've tried just sending an arpeggiated part to the muse via midi, and there seems to be a 1/128 note delay when i do that (with u-sync), which i assume is recording delay even though my input latency is 8.7 ms. without u-sync, when I do this workaround, the recording delay is a bit shorter, so it seems that u-sync is definitely introducing some sort of latency.

Let's clarify something: MIDI Notes and U-SYNC have nothing to do with each other. The Nome can send 2 types of MIDI:

• MIDI Clock & MIDI Start/stop: these are timed precisely, either generated by the Nome or sync'ed to the DAW using U-SYNC
• MIDI Notes and other MIDI: these are simply "forwarded", the Nome does not control their timing at all, it just sends them when they are received

So you cannot send notes "with U-SYNC". The U-SYNC plugin itself does have a delay of about 8ms, which is compensated with PDC (Plugin Delay Compensation - this is the only way it can get recordings on the grid), so maybe that is what you see when the plugin is enabled.

I just tried used the external sync on live, but then I'm unable to play the project nor the nome this way.

That is strange - when you press Play on the Nome the project does not start? Is the "EXT" button in Ableton enabled?

Simon

[asender]

Hi Simon,

So you cannot send notes "with U-SYNC". The U-SYNC plugin itself does have a delay of about 8ms, which is compensated with PDC (Plugin Delay Compensation - this is the only way it can get recordings on the grid), so maybe that is what you see when the plugin is enabled.

Just to be clear, I am well aware that u-sync does not do anything in terms of sending information, all I'm referring to is that while I have u-sync on a project, the sync between the computer and the synths seems to be worse. So when I record a track, when the nome is synced to albeton with u-sync, the end result is that it introduces more latency to the actually audio recording, and I can hear how its lagging more behind the ableton generated track. Once I play the exact same midi clip, and record the audio, without u-sync on the project, it seems to be more in time with the ableton click and the latency is reduced.
In theory, if i understand correctly, there would be a delay, because there's an active plug-in, but when the synth is playing the midi notes sent from ableton, it shouldn't be off the click track, or am I wrong to assume this?

That is strange - when you press Play on the Nome the project does not start? Is the "EXT" button in Ableton enabled?

Yes, when i press the nome start button in this case, it seems to start playing and immediately stops.

I will try to see if this issue is solved with using the analog output solution you suggested next week, I just need to figure out what input I can use for this purpose as a long term solution.

[Simon]

In theory, if i understand correctly, there would be a delay, because there's an active plug-in, but when the synth is playing the midi notes sent from ableton, it shouldn't be off the click track, or am I wrong to assume this?

It could be, have you checked if you have PDC enabled?

Yes, when i press the nome start button in this case, it seems to start playing and immediately stops.

This is not expected and should be very easy to solve. Is U-SYNC deactivated when you try this?

Simon