Nome2 & TR-1000

[sfdjeo]

I haven't tried yet but I'll soon be connecting the TR1000 with my other studio gear. Anyone here have any success/experience with clocking it with the Nome2, which do you use for master clock etc? From what I'm reading the TR's midi sync is pretty lacking and loose when slaved. I've just been using it as master which has been working fine.

Thanks in advance!

[Goony]

Following this, as I have a Tr-1000 as well.

[Simon]

I would also be curious to know! Let us know if you try )

Interesting fact that the TR-1000 has 2 DIN Sync clock outputs, but the input seems to be MIDI only (the Nome can output a DIN Sync signal - and that works perfectly fine with the 303, 606, etc.)

But let me add that you could get the Nome to follow the TR-1000 from a trigger out (sent regularly every 4th, 8th notes, for example), especially from FW 5.0 (released as alpha for now).

[sfdjeo]

I set up the TR1K with the Nome2 last night and maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I had to adjust the U-sync (with newest version of Ableton, Mac 15.6.1) to -64 samples to get the drum hits (hi hats and kick) to align with the grid.

It's been documented that the TR has 50 ms latency (really bad) when slaved to external sync using what's called "all tracks" mode, and 8 ms latency with in "layered gens" mode (basically layered gens is supposed to have tighter external sync while sacrificing sync of its internal tracks. I have Ableton latency compensation adjusted so that total latency is almost 0.

Any ideas why it would be -64 instead of -50?

[sfdjeo]

Hi Simon, just seeing your message now as I was typing my response.

I would be curious to clock the Nome from the TR if possible. Can I do this with 4.6 or only the alpha 5? If so I would love to test 5 if you could send me the file (I could always revert to 4.6 if needed)

Thanks!

[wuli]

With the U-Sync latency set and the compensation set in Ableton, how is the transport behaving? Is there lag starting, or is your TR and the tracks in ableton just locked now?

[Simon]

I would be curious to clock the Nome from the TR if possible. Can I do this with 4.6 or only the alpha 5? If so I would love to test 5 if you could send me the file (I could always revert to 4.6 if needed)

Awesome that you can try it out
What do you mean "64 samples"? You should not adjust any latency in Ableton, only in the U-SYNC plugin itself, using the "shift" slider, which is milliseconds (ms). For most devices, compensation of zero lands very close to the grid. Sometimes you need something between -10ms and +10ms depending on the machine but also your audio interface.
Based on what you said the TR will need a lot more.

Regarding the alpha firmware, all the info is in the alpha version of the manual on https://download.simntonic.com/docs section 8.3.

With the U-Sync latency set and the compensation set in Ableton, how is the transport behaving? Is there lag starting, or is your TR and the tracks in ableton just locked now?

Once the shift is set then Ableton and TR should be in perfect time with each other. But yes a very large negative value will induce a "delayed" start, i.e. you press the play button and Ableton transport itself starts a few milliseconds after that. It's the only way to go "back in time" Try setting a track delay to -1000ms (on any track in any session) and you will see that the Ableton transport starts about 1 second after you press the button.

[wuli]

With the U-Sync latency set and the compensation set in Ableton, how is the transport behaving? Is there lag starting, or is your TR and the tracks in ableton just locked now?

Once the shift is set then Ableton and TR should be in perfect time with each other. But yes a very large negative value will induce a "delayed" start, i.e. you press the play button and Ableton transport itself starts a few milliseconds after that. It's the only way to go "back in time" Try setting a track delay to -1000ms (on any track in any session) and you will see that the Ableton transport starts about 1 second after you press the button.

What effect does this have on latency internal to Ableton. If the track delay is -1000ms and I play a note on my Push 3 (controlling a VST), is there now -1000ms lag between when I hit the note and when I hear it, or is the -1000ms just effecting the transport?

[wuli]

Sorry to bomb everyone with newb questions... So, an issue I see currently is bpm drift in Ableton when I'm using the TR as a master clock. The Ableton transport fluctuates slightly. Not a huge amount, but generally around .5 to 1bpm. Is this something the Nome with U-sync would do better at as well?

[sfdjeo]

Sorry I meant -64 ms set in the U-Sync plugin... I posted my settings to the elektron board which has a tr1000 user group and I think my mistake was that I had the Ableton buffer set to 256 when it should be 64 or 32 even. I'll go back and change that stuff tomorrow and report back on what the U-sync number is.

Thanks for the response as always! Still curious about clocking the Nome2 from the TR... is that only possible in the alpha 5 Nome2 build, or just better?

[sfdjeo]

btw I only see 4.96 firmware for Nome2 on the downloads page, am I not seeing 5 or is it not posted yet?

[Simon]

Sorry I meant -64 ms set in the U-Sync plugin... I posted my settings to the elektron board which has a tr1000 user group and I think my mistake was that I had the Ableton buffer set to 256 when it should be 64 or 32 even. I'll go back and change that stuff tomorrow and report back on what the U-sync number is.

Buffer size should make zero difference with U-SYNC. And to sync the Nome to the TR you need to send a regular audio signal from the TR.

Still curious about clocking the Nome2 from the TR... is that only possible in the alpha 5 Nome2 build, or just better?

If that signal is at 24ppq, then yes you can do it with FW 4.6 (latest stable), set the "inP" setting to "24P" and send the signal to the "INPUT" plug on the Nome.
If that signal is less (for example 1ppq, i.e. every quarter note), you will need the "1P" value, which is only there from 5.0.

And yes the latest alpha is called "4.97-alpha", that's the one you want.

[Simon]

Sorry to bomb everyone with newb questions... So, an issue I see currently is bpm drift in Ableton when I'm using the TR as a master clock. The Ableton transport fluctuates slightly. Not a huge amount, but generally around .5 to 1bpm. Is this something the Nome with U-sync would do better at as well?

Yes definitely. U-SYNC will lock the Nome and Ableton tightly together, and then the Nome can send a precise and jitter-free clock to the TR. If there is any issue, it's the way the TR follows the MIDI clock (from the Nome or any other clock), which apparently induces a latency as pointed out by sfdjeo.

[sfdjeo]

Send regular audio signal from the TR, meaning not the USB audio I assume? That's what I was doing...

Haven't tested again with lower buffer in Ableton but if you're saying it won't make a difference then I still don't understand why I need to set it to -64 ms in the U-sync plugin, as the TR supposedly is around 50 ms in terms of latency.

Moving some stuff around in my studio but once it's all put back together I'll do some more test and lyk. I'll try the TR as master as well!

Thanks!