Android BandHelper with Midronome MIDI cc

[Milosdrummer]

Hello all. I have a question about sending cc tempo change to Midronome using android tablet and BandHelper app.

I have connected the two devices via USB hub and an OTG cable, created a new MIDI device in the app (app recognizes the Midronome, there are input and output ports and some MIDI activity in the log page), created a MIDI preset with cc commands for tempo change and assigned the preset to a song in the library. There are messages being sent and recieved, but there is no response in the tempo change.

Here are some screenshots if someone can share their experience or advice on what I'm missing here, or not doing right.

[Simon]

I think your "numbering" set to 1-128 is confusing, since you need to shift all the values by 1

Try setting it to 0-127

[Milosdrummer]

I think your "numbering" set to 1-128 is confusing, since you need to shift all the values by 1

Try setting it to 0-127

I have tried this as well, but it didn't make any difference. After some time, I have tried using cc87 and that finally worked! Luckily, I have no need for tempos outside the 60-187 range, but I'm still not sure how I would go about making presets for 195 or 45 tempos.

What is confusing to me (and my keyboard player who is much more proficient in MIDI programming) is the explanation of the cc functions for tempo change. I guess that a simple table of controller/value combinations would make things much more clear, and what I don't understand is why cc mesages are not divided in 1-128, 129-256, 257-384, and 385-400 bpms...

Anyhow, it's not mine to critique this fine machine and the awesome team that built it, I'm just not that experienced and familiar with this stuff, but I got it to work, and I'm happy!

[Simon]

Well I could see from your last screenshot that it seems you are sending the wrong values? I can see CC 0x54, 00 and CC 0x55, 09, which is CC84 val=0 followed by CC85 val=9.
So you are using 84 and 85 which you should be using 85 and 86, hence my guess regarding the 1-128 vs 0-127 setting

And even if this was on CC85 and 86, CC85 val=0 followed by CC86 val=9 would set the tempo to 0*128+9 = 9bpm (as per the formula in the manual), which is not a valid BPM and therefore ignored.

Anyhow, it's not mine to critique this fine machine and the awesome team that built it

No no that's fair - and I think you make a good point, there is always room for improvement
I'll see what I can do at the next firmware upgrade - I think someone suggested using an NRPN instead.

[Milosdrummer]

The screenshots were taken from various attempts, the forum allows only 3 per post so I shared just few examples... Anyhow, I see that this works just fine, just have to wrap my head around other cc options for tempo change, in case I need it in the future.

I have made presets for 100+ tempos and assigned them to ~300 songs in Bandhelper, hopefully any change in the firmware would not require reprogramming everything

[Simon]

I have made presets for 100+ tempos and assigned them to ~300 songs in Bandhelper, hopefully any change in the firmware would not require reprogramming everything

Obviously - backwards compatibility (to a point) is the idea

[Milosdrummer]

Ok, I finally got it...

For mine and anybody else's reference, when making tempo change presets (USB commands):

CC85=0 followed by CC86=30-127 gives tempo change between 30 and 127 BPM

CC85=1 followed by CC86=0-127 gives tempo change between 128 and 255 BPM

CC87=0-127 gives tempo change between 60 and 187 BPM (as stated in the manual)

CC88=0-127 gives tempo change between 100 and 227 BPM (as stated in the manual)

CC89=0-127 gives tempo change between 140 and 267 BPM (as stated in the manual)

CC90=1-? gives time signature (in Midronome setup options 'bar') change between 1/4, 2/4 3/4, 4/4 etc. (as stated in the manual)

All this was somewhat explained in the manual, but rather redacted and not clear to less proficient users like myself

Nevertheless, thank you for the support Simon, I'm very satisfied with the device and with the fact I've got it to do all which I hoped it would (and I learned some new skills along the way . Cheers

Edit and p.s.

The Midronome works in my particular setup even when only connected to android device via OTG cable without any USB hub or external power supply. I suspect this is possible because I use only MIDI out which draws less power compared to audio output.

[Dark Waves]

Thanks for this breakdown. It does help clarify the description in the manual, and I'll save the post as a reference. Could you edit the second line for CC88, though, which should be CC89? I think that's a typo.

[Milosdrummer]

Thanks for this breakdown. It does help clarify the description in the manual, and I'll save the post as a reference. Could you edit the second line for CC88, though, which should be CC89? I think that's a typo.

No problem, fixed the typo

[Simon]

Amazing, Milos, well done!

Sorry if the manual is not clear! How would you write this paragraph, then, keeping it relatively short?

Thanks
Simon

The Midronome works in my particular setup even when only connected to android device via OTG cable without any USB hub or external power supply. I suspect this is possible because I use only MIDI out which draws less power compared to audio output.

You mean your phone powers the Midronome? Pretty cool

[Milosdrummer]

Amazing, Milos, well done!

Sorry if the manual is not clear! How would you write this paragraph, then, keeping it relatively short?

manual.png

Thanks
Simon

The Midronome works in my particular setup even when only connected to android device via OTG cable without any USB hub or external power supply. I suspect this is possible because I use only MIDI out which draws less power compared to audio output.

You mean your phone powers the Midronome? Pretty cool

Thank you for the support and attention to customer needs Simon!

Yes, the Midronome gets powered by phone alone. I will have to test how the setup without a power supply works and how much it drains the phone/tablet battery, for now I don't have the luxury to risk it on a gig, will wait for a chance to leave it working in some off time.

As for the manual, I guess just stating the (maybe obvious) cc value range and the resulting tempo range would make things clearer. My keyboard player said he got confused by wording 'from x to y bpm' so maybe changing that to 'gives tempo range x-y' or 'set tempo between x and y' would help.

For me, the first formula was not so obvious. The '128' got me thinking that the setting in the app (or any device sending CC) should be 1-128, which is not correct.

Something like this would probably be easier to comprehend, with a caviat of hindsight that I have now after my brain clicked to the direct experience of making the CC commands work properly:

CC85 val. 0 and CC86 val. 30-127, sets tempo between 30 and 127
CC85 val 1 and CC86 val. 0-127, sets tempo between 128 and 255

Example: CC85 val 0 and CC86 val 120 changes tempo to 120 BPM
CC85 val. 1 and CC86 val. 22 changes tempo to 150 BPM

Other CC commands were more clear as they were the ones I have figured out first, again maybe stating the values would make it even more clear.

[Simon]

Thanks for the feedback, Milos! Updated

[Milosdrummer]

That's great! Now I know there is cc85 val 2 as well

[Milosdrummer]

CURRENT STATUS

After some testing, here is the status of Midronome in conjunction with BandHelper running on Android platform:

Version 2.0 firmware works with Android 6.0 (tested) using BandHelper to send cc messages. It does not work with Android 11 and 12 (tested) in the same environment (tested with some other MIDI apps with same results, not able to handle MIDI ports for Midronome).

Version 2.9beta firmware works with Android 11 and 12 (tested) using BandHelper to send cc messages. It does not work with Android 6.0.

Special version 89.0 firmware behaves the same as v2.9beta, but has only one MIDI in and one MIDI out and has no MIDI forwarding capabilities.

----------------------

Hello all. I have a new issue with connecting the Midronome to an Android device.

This is not directly related to the original topic, so I can post in a new thread if needed, but I guess it's close enough.

While my first setup was fully operational with an Android 6 tablet, now with a new tablet that runs Android 12, the BandHelper app is not able to create MIDI ports for Midronome. I have tried setting the default USB config. (developer options) to MIDI or any other setting but nothing works. Tried different cables and adapters, tried the same on a phone that runs Android 11, no luck.

The problem seems to be with Android version or settings, but I have no idea what more to try, except maybe downgrading the Android system to ver. 6.

Someone has any ideas on this?

Milos

[Simon]

That is very strange indeed. Are you sure the only thing which has changed is the Android version? Can you try with other USB devices, for example an audio interface which has some MIDI ports?

Cheers
Simon

[Milosdrummer]

That is very strange indeed. Are you sure the only thing which has changed is the Android version? Can you try with other USB devices, for example an audio interface which has some MIDI ports?

Cheers
Simon

I have tried that, the app makes a MIDI port for the interface, but I don't know how to test the functionality of cc commands for the Midronome in that case...

Anyway, seems that there is some incompatibility or missing permission/setting in new Android systems for this. The app is the same across the devices tested, the cables used are OTG (mounting a flash drive works), so the only difference is the Android version. Ver 6 works, ver 11 and 12 don't work (the Midronome gets power but even a MIDI connect app fails to create a MIDI port for BandHelper). I am trying to resolve this with the app admin (Arlo is still figuring this out), but I'm not quite sure if the problem comes from BH implementation or Midronome implementation or Android itself.

[Simon]

I don't understand, did you test with other USB devices?

but I'm not quite sure if the problem comes from BH implementation or Midronome implementation or Android itself.

Testing with them will answer that question - if it works then there must be smth different with the Midronome, if not then the problem must be with the Android or BH code

[Milosdrummer]

I don't understand, did you test with other USB devices?

but I'm not quite sure if the problem comes from BH implementation or Midronome implementation or Android itself.

Testing with them will answer that question - if it works then there must be smth different with the Midronome, if not then the problem must be with the Android or BH code

The last screenshot I've sent is testing BH with an audio interface, and the MIDI ports were showing in the app. That tells me there could be something holding back the Midronome from performing the same.

I am constantly following up on testing and conversation with BH developers as well, but for now there was no concrete conclusion on which side is the problem.

[Simon]

Oh I see, my bad

Well my first guess would be that the new Android or BH does not like the multiple MIDI interfaces on the same device, since that audio interface only has one MIDI in and one MIDI out which is much more standard.

Just a thought, could you try firmware 2.1 (which is a beta firmware) - you can download it here. It has very few differences with Firmware 2.0, the main difference is that the USB code has been slighty improved (the USB descriptor, which is the info that is sent to your computer/Android in your case). I doubt it will make a difference but it's worth a shot.
Notice that you can freely upgrade and downgrade between any firmware, so this is risk free

Simon

[Milosdrummer]

I have tried the updated firmware, but no luck... Still waiting for some possible solution from BH side.

[Milosdrummer]

An update to this topic. Simon has made a special firmware to tackle the Android limitation of the number of MIDI ports that it's able to handle. This has solved the connection issue between Android (v11 and later, probably applies to v7 and later but I haven't tested those) and Midronome. One caveat is that the MIDI forwarding capabilities are gone in this version.

Many thanks to Simon for making an additional directory for anyone that needs this FW version and for helping me sort this problem out!

https://files.midronome.com/firmware/__ ... -firmware/

[Milosdrummer]

And another update! I finally got the chance to test the current beta version 2.9 with BandHelper and it works! Seems that something else in the previous firmware versions was obstructing the MIDI functionality with newer Android systems. Happy days

Edit:
The new firmware is NOT working with the old Android 6.0 tablet... for me it's not a problem (if I ever need to connect the old one, I can simply downgrade the firmware), I'm just sharing the current knowledge if anyone runs into similar issues, and if anyone cares to get to the bottom of this, which I doubt :p

[Simon]

Awesome Milos, thank you for the reply

Could you please edit your first post adding in bold CURRENT STATUS at the top, stating what works and what not on which version? Thank you

Simon

[Milosdrummer]

Hello again! This is slightly off topic, but still a question about Midronome and Bandhelper. I am sure my problem is only due to inexperience with MIDI, so here is a noob question:

How should I go about making a MIDI preset for program change that I would send from Bandhelper through Midronome to Roland SPD-SX? For now, I have made a MIDI device in BH that sends messages to all ports of Midronome (fw version 3.0) on CH1 and set the SPD-SX to the same CH1 (also, the setting to receive the pc message is on). Made a MIDI preset for a song to change patch to 23 by writing MSB 0, LSB 0, PC 24 and assigned to the song in BH. While the cc message for tempo change goes through and makes the corresponding jump in tempo, the program change does nothing.

Am I doing something wrong or should this work as stated? In case of latter, I would explore the Roland side further (not sure what else to do there) but I want to narrow down the possible points of error.

Edit: I have managed to have the SPD-SX change presets by sending pc messages from Cubase, but that was with direct connection from computer to SPD-SX via USB MIDI. That leaves me with a question mark, where am I faulting? The bandhelper side is 99% clear (all settings for ports, channels and pc messages are in place) , and Midronome should forward the commands automatically. Baffled.

Edit 2: Connecting the SPD-SX to a Roland TD30 brain also works. Just matching the MIDI channel and setting tx/rx send on made the sampling pad follow the patch changes on drum brain.

Edit 3: After some more testing, it seems the Midronome is the culprit. Spd-sx changes presets even when MIDI is being sent from the PC via TD30 as interface. I ran the signal from the tablet via Midronome to the sound card connected to the PC and scanned with MIDI OX. No program changes are coming through but the sync signal is shown normally.