Sim'n Tonic Forums

I use Finale notation software to send note data, program change, and control change to external MIDI hardware sound modules and drum machines.
A couple of live instrument effects processors rely on sync clock for echo delay timing, etc. as do the drum machines and a sequencer.

Much like a DAW I expect, during playback the BPM is set by Finale and apparently depends on the precision of the Windows 10 clock.
It's recently become apparent that I suffer from a bad case of the jitters.

I've been searching for a solution that
A) isn't complicated by the fact that several of my scores include multiple time signature changes within them, and
B) is transparent to my workflow, in that I can start and stop playback via Finale's transport controls.

I'm really just looking for some precision solution to my CPU's imprecision. I think.

A) It seems to me that Simon might have designed Midronome to avoid a time signature requirement, but requests such as this one below are worrisome because the number of beats per bar would have to be constant. Wouldn't they?
viewtopic.php?t=64

B) I've seen another device out there that allows native transport to be used, and it requires the manufacturer's plug-in.
Finale accepts third party plugins, and a plugin is mentioned on Midronome's home page. but I'm unclear about it.

Judging by what I infer from the post below, Simon either has included or is open to including a function where Midronome is waiting for a pulse by which it can determine the BPM - one bar - before it activates downstream devices.
viewtopic.php?p=347&hilit=transport#p347

Does this mean that Midronome calculates a steady BPM based on a one bar, jittery initial clock signal sent by the PC and then syncs everything both upstream (DAW, Finale) and downstream (sequencers, etc.) to itself?

Oh, but probably the pulse is from an audio track that is unaffected by PC jitter (?)

Well, those are the two things I'm looking for, and don't think they stray too far from Simon's original intent.
If I understand the intent, that is.

Thanks very much for considering this set of circumstances.

Some comments about the forum's search capabilities:
When I search the term "time signature" in this forum, the search engine returns
"The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: signature time."
When I search the term "plug-in", the return is
"Search found 0 matches: plug-in"
When I search the term "plugin", the return is
"The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: plugin."
"Plugin" is how the website spells the term. Too common?!

Hey John

Thanks for asking, and great you are interested!

So to quickly answer:

• The Midronome only sends MIDI Clock (not notes - so you would have to send that another way)
• Yes it does sync the time signature and tempo, even within the same song
• The way it works is the Midronome syncs to an audio signal generated by a plugin in your DAW - see diagram below

J. John Mixson wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 23:41 A) It seems to me that Simon might have designed Midronome to avoid a time signature requirement, but requests such as this one below are worrisome because the number of beats per bar would have to be constant. Wouldn't they?
viewtopic.php?t=64

This link is about resyncing (=restarting) devices over MIDI Clock - nothing related to your setup as you would use the audio DAW sync (i.e. the Midronome will sync to Finale and not the other way around).
Funny you mention the time signature because that IS indeed one of the biggest advantages of the Midronome over its competitors.
See this video from 10:00 where you can see the tempo and time signature changing in the DAW (in this case Studio One), and the Midronome following: https://www.facebook.com/midronome/vide ... 4440411059

J. John Mixson wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 23:41 B) I've seen another device out there that allows native transport to be used, and it requires the manufacturer's plug-in.
Finale accepts third party plugins, and a plugin is mentioned on Midronome's home page. but I'm unclear about it.

Yes the Midronome also needs a plugin.

J. John Mixson wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 23:41 Does this mean that Midronome calculates a steady BPM based on a one bar, jittery initial clock signal sent by the PC and then syncs everything both upstream (DAW, Finale) and downstream (sequencers, etc.) to itself?

Almost - it takes one bar to start the sync, but the pulses from the DAW need to be sent all the time (and this is done by the DAW plugin).

J. John Mixson wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 23:41 Judging by what I infer from the post below, Simon either has included or is open to including a function where Midronome is waiting for a pulse by which it can determine the BPM - one bar - before it activates downstream devices.
viewtopic.php?p=347&hilit=transport#p347

This link is about something very specific: whether you want the Midronome to "freeze" or to run as a Master when it is not receiving anything from your DAW.

J. John Mixson wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 23:41 Oh, but probably the pulse is from an audio track that is unaffected by PC jitter (?)

Spot on

Hope that answers your (many) questions

Cheers
Simon

PS: and sorry about the unupdated (and unclear) website, it takes a lot of time to update and I would rather focus that time on working on the prototypes and gathering new leads so we can relaunch on Kickstarter and make this a reality

Hey Simon!

Thanks very much for your informative responses.

I watched the video section demonstrating time signature change-following.
That's even better than just ignoring changes, since I expect it would address any restart concerns.

I'm looking forward to watching the whole video to learn more about the plugin.

The option to freeze or run is great, too.

[I didn't know you are responsible for forum functionality as well. I agree with your priorities.]

Best regards,
John

Hey John

Awesome

Yes I am kinda the man for everything (I have a bit of help from interns on and off). After we have a successful KS I hope I get enough funds to get one employee

Let me know if you have any more questions!
Simon

yeah simon is the man

I'm posting this question as a reply because my background information is in the thread above.
This question is about Audio Sync.

Finale, which behaves as a software sequencer, can use plugins only in VST Mode (computer-based sound generation).
When controlling external MIDI components, as I do, a plugin isn't allowed.

Will it be possible, from Midronome's perspective, to load your Audio Sync signal into a Finale staff?
This would be akin to importing audio into a DAW track, I believe.

The objective is to send that signal from Finale to Midronome which in turn sends accurate clock to the MIDI devices.
This Audio Sync track will follow Finale's Realtime signals Start and Stop AND Tempo variations.

Finale is sending Note, Program Change, and Controller data as well.
If Midronome doesn't pass these Thru, then I'll have to see if my mioXM can provide a routing workaround.

Thanks for considering this on short notice.

Hi John

Things have changed a bit since my last reply. At this point I am pretty sure there will not be any plugin, at least nor for now.

The DAW sync will be based on a WAV file, which you will have to generate for your session (the WAV file will be dependent on your tempo, your time signature and changes of these through the songs). I will provide a tool to quickly and easily generate such a file.

Then I might make a plugin in the future, but really it's a lot of work and the only advantage over the WAV file is that it's a little more practical (instead of having to regenerate the WAV file).

In your case, I assume Finale can load a WAV file in a track, right? Then that will work perfectly fine

Hi Simon.
Sorry if this seems like I'm hijacking this thread, but I have a related question regarding the WAV sync generation tool.
As we discussed previously, would you be able to include a function to generate the WAV file with different levels of swing/shuffle please?

Thanks again for all your hard work!
Gavin.

No worries Gavin - but yea maybe that question should have been on the thread about swing
And yes generating a sync file should be easy enough, I can totally do that. But I think many people are rooting for swing being implemented in hardware, so let's see what the new features votes give

Simon,

Thank you for the reply in time for me to take advantage of the last few hours of your Kickstarter campaign.
I was on the lookout for a notification email, but I guess the forum won't do that until you have that employee you're hoping for.

You said "(the WAV file will be dependent on your tempo, your time signature and changes of these through the songs)."

I take this to mean that a WAV file will need to be generated for each time signature used in the score, as well as for each measure in which the tempo changes, e.g., a Ritardando over several measures at the end of a piece.

The Finale manual says,
Wave, AIFF, or MP3 files can be loaded into a Finale document's audio track. To add an audio track to a Finale document and add an audio file, see To import an audio file (below).

To import an audio file
1. ...
2. ...
3. ...
4. Navigate to the desired audio file and click Open. The Audio Clip Attributes dialog box appears, where you can adjust the start point of the audio file in the score, or specify at what point to begin/end the audio file (the portion you would like to play).

To sync your music to tempo changes in the imported audio file, see To record tempo changes with TempoTap. [Ed. OH, NO! NO TAPPING, PLEASE!]

Finale does not include any audio editing capabilities. To make changes to an audio file itself, use an audio editing product. (Pro Tools, Sonar, and Cubase are examples of audio editing products).

Like the Tull song says, Nothing Is Easy.
I know you can appreciate that.
Thanks again,
John

My pleasure John, happy to hear you jumped on board!

J. John Mixson wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 20:40 I was on the lookout for a notification email, but I guess the forum won't do that until you have that employee you're hoping for.

The Forum can indeed do that, you just to change your notification settings here: ucp.php?i=ucp_notifications&mode=notification_options
For example it can send you an email on forums you are subscribed to, and then subscribe to each forum at the bottom of the page in the blue bar.

J. John Mixson wrote: ↑10 Nov 2022, 20:40 You said "(the WAV file will be dependent on your tempo, your time signature and changes of these through the songs)."

I take this to mean that a WAV file will need to be generated for each time signature used in the score, as well as for each measure in which the tempo changes, e.g., a Ritardando over several measures at the end of a piece.

All correct

Regarding the "synchronisation", well I would guess it is already done once you have the correct file? I mean if the sync file follows the tempo and time signature changes, then all you should need is to put it in the session and play it right from the beginning