Sim'n Tonic Forums

Official topic in the Potential future feature Forum: viewtopic.php?t=211

Feel free to still write here in this topic for debates or larger discussions around the feature.

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This would be for the live performance folks: allow persistent storage of a list of tempos. This keeps the person in charge of the device from having to memorize or manually note tempos on their setlist, and from having to manually knob-over to a specific tempo between every song.

List should be retained in memory when the device is powered off.

Obviously this would require hardware changes. You’d probably need to add next/prev buttons for navigating back and forth through the list of tempos. A long press on prev could bring you back to preset #1 (please don’t make civilians deal with zero-based indexing on their display, their paper setlists are probably not numbered starting from zero ) The Cadillac implementation would add a two-digit LED display to show your current position in the list, probably smaller than the main tempo LED display. I think it’s a good idea to always show the BPM in the main display, rather than having to choose a display mode.

Opinions may differ on this, but in my opinion you could omit an explicit “save tempo” button. Whatever position in the list you’re in, you can quickly edit the tempo stored there with the main knob, and that change is stored instantly in that position in the list. This makes programming in a new setlist as quick and simple as possible. The main reason you might want saving a tempo to be an explicit operation would be if you regularly manually speed up or slow down a song during performance, but want to come to the original starting tempo when you hit that spot in the list the next night. You’d need to overload an existing button to handle saves, though, or add yet another button.

Switching to the next preset tempo with the clock running should probably leave the clock running and just execute the tempo change, just as if it had been done with the knob. This way it could be used for drastic mid-song tempo shifts.

Yes, this idea of memory locations for set lists crossed my mind also.

There's an app called "band helper", that will run everything if you let it, but notably scrolling lyrics, charts, backing tracks, patch changes and light shows. It also does the accounts. And click tracks. But not midi clock, as far as I know...

So, if midronome could slave to external midi commands, (tempo change, start, stop) band helper would display a heck of a lot more useful info than the midronome display could - purely based on size of display compared to a tablet. You just swipe left, next chart and midronome starts the audio click and bangs out clock to your keys and perc pads/drum machines.

But that whole scenario, is basically a laptop on stage.

Just thinking out loud.

N

Thank you Danno for writing the suggestion here

This has been indeed spoken about. I really like the detailed workflow and idea, and this will definitely be considered )

Thinking about the discussion Niall put here with David - viewtopic.php?t=35 - receiving MIDI clock CC commands could also be a nice way to set tempo&time signature.

But just FYI there is currently a way to do this by using the audio sync: if you have a device that can send a specific sync signal based on your playlist (it would probably need to be DIY), then you could be able to set tempo and time signature very quickly.

Another way - definitely my ever favourite for a live setup - is to use a drum pad. Say you're the drummer, and instead of looking at a list with tempos, look at a typical setlist. Then, at the end of each song, sing the next song in your head to get the right tempo. Then tap one bar of that tempo on the drum pad - boom you're set and ready for the next song
I really like that because the tempo is more "felt" rather than a written value (i.e. adjusted to the excitement and mood of the day ). Besides, when the band starts playing, the tempo is exactly where it was in the drummer's head since he/she just tapped it.

/Simon

Ok - been giving this some thought, and actually I think it's doable without hardware changes?

All of these new features like this one, the tempo nudge, the expression pedal, will all be deactivated by default in order to avoid overwhelming new users

For this one, I am thinking a quite cumbersome way of making the preset (unfortunately without adding new buttons and new display for the presets this is hard to do), something like:
* set tempo+time signature
* go in the settings, select Preset, preset number X, and validate -> that will save current tempo+time signature into preset number X

X will go from 1 (yes Daniel, one ) to 99.

Then once it's programmed, like everything else on the Midronome, it should be very easy to use:
* Press a button (for ex Mute, or maybe a combination of buttons?) and turn the knob at the same time to show on the screen P:01 with 01 being the active preset.
** This can also be used to "see" the current preset as the first turn on the knob will just show the current preset, then turning more will change it

The knob is quick so say your on preset #16 and want to go back to 1 it should be very fast to do so.

This will be deactivated by default with all presets empty. After saving presets, to delete the all and go back to deactivated functonality, the user will need to:
* go in the settings, select Preset, turn all the way past preset 99 and select "DEL" (delete)

Questions:
* Should the preset save more things, like the volume and click sound maybe?
* Or even the whole configuration of the device (CV outputs, Pedal config, DAW sync, Drum pad sensitivity, Reset mode, etc.)? I would personally say saving the whole thing would be a bad idea.

This seems like a great solution with the current available control set!

For my use cases, I think just saving tempo and time signature would make me perfectly happy.

Hello, let me start right away with the wishes, because everything that is already planned seems well thought out and executed to me.

Yes presets would be a good thing for me for live use because it's a quick fix, easy to use and serves the tempo agreed beforehand with everyone involved.

For me it is important that everything can be done live as simply and quickly as possible, but also without a computer. BPM and time siganture would be good to have.
I think it's good that the choice of bar is already very free, but with long bars it would be interesting to make acoustic distinctions between main and off-peak times in the metronome. Perhaps the LEDs can flash dimly at important times that are not exactly the beginning of a bar. ... Just some thoughts...

It would also be easy to operate if the Midronome could receive Midi PC# on one of the Midi sockets, with which a tempo/beat-preset could be called up.

The PC# message, which is necessary for a sound change anyway for synths or effects, could trigger the associated tempo right away.
Can that be done (Midi In,...?) Would that be something?

Hi 1vl - nice to hear your thoughts

And YES for the configuration without a laptop, and once configured everything is simple and quick, that is literally the CORE idea of the Midronome

1vl wrote: ↑23 Mar 2022, 00:42 with long bars it would be interesting to make acoustic distinctions between main and off-peak times in the metronome. Perhaps the LEDs can flash dimly at important times that are not exactly the beginning of a bar.

Not exactly sure what you mean by this - but the LED is already flashing green at the beginning of the bar (down beat) and red on other beats. And you can adjust both volume and click sound independently for the down beat and the other beats.

1vl wrote: ↑23 Mar 2022, 00:42 The PC# message, which is necessary for a sound change anyway for synths or effects, could trigger the associated tempo right away.
Can that be done (Midi In,...?) Would that be something?

That is something we discussed actually - here: viewtopic.php?t=35
But if this gets implemented it will be over USB as adding a MIDI Input will be a big change (making the case bigger etc etc). So the idea would be to use a MIDI keyboard or a phone with an app like Band Helper to do this.
If this is dear to you please create a new topic so it's clear that it is a feature request

Thank you for your prompt reply.
Long bars can be internally divided differently (simple example: 5/4 = 3+2 or 2+3), or a series of different bars 4/4 + 4/4 +4/4 + 5/4 could be programmed to the midronome as one 17/4 bar. Then it would be nice to mark the subdivisions with, for example, a brighter or darker flashing LED or/and a different metronome tone.
Imagine losing track after 10 beats and having to wait until the 99th to find the 1 again...

Even in 4/4 bars I find it groovier to play along with the metronome if the beats sounds differently (i.e. back beat accents or on count 3 ... like
! _ * _
1 2 3 4

Ok that is an interesting idea I did not think about this. Like I said if you care about it create a new topic for it - so we keep one new feature per topic.

Hi. Andrew.

First of all. Congratulations for the fantastic product you developed.

Tempo present is essential. It gets tricky manually move a knob to a specific tempo between every song.

Simon wrote: ↑10 Mar 2022, 11:33 Ok - been giving this some thought, and actually I think it's doable without hardware changes?

All of these new features like this one, the tempo nudge, the expression pedal, will all be deactivated by default in order to avoid overwhelming new users

For this one, I am thinking a quite cumbersome way of making the preset (unfortunately without adding new buttons and new display for the presets this is hard to do), something like:
* set tempo+time signature
* go in the settings, select Preset, preset number X, and validate -> that will save current tempo+time signature into preset number X

X will go from 1 (yes Daniel, one ) to 99.

Then once it's programmed, like everything else on the Midronome, it should be very easy to use:
* Press a button (for ex Mute, or maybe a combination of buttons?) and turn the knob at the same time to show on the screen P:01 with 01 being the active preset.
** This can also be used to "see" the current preset as the first turn on the knob will just show the current preset, then turning more will change it

The knob is quick so say your on preset #16 and want to go back to 1 it should be very fast to do so.

This will be deactivated by default with all presets empty. After saving presets, to delete the all and go back to deactivated functonality, the user will need to:
* go in the settings, select Preset, turn all the way past preset 99 and select "DEL" (delete)

Questions:
* Should the preset save more things, like the volume and click sound maybe?
* Or even the whole configuration of the device (CV outputs, Pedal config, DAW sync, Drum pad sensitivity, Reset mode, etc.)? I would personally say saving the whole thing would be a bad idea.

Just a thought on possible implementation of preset recall: would the encoder be available to press and then scroll to presets without needing other button combos or entering settings?

Official topic in the Potential future feature Forum: viewtopic.php?t=211

Feel free to still write here in this topic for debates or larger discussions around the feature.