Sim'n Tonic Forums

Hey guys

So the module designs are coming soon. So far I have 6 designs ideas, which are listed on https://survey.midronome.com/
(and in the picture below)

I suggest you go on that page and cast your vote as well

Note that the "big" module with Ableton Link, Beat Detection and Bluetooth Control is not in the vote, because it's already approved. There is no ETA at the moment though, and at this point I cannot guarantee Beat Detection will make it as it's quite a big deal code-wise. But I'll definitely give it my best try

This topic is an open discussion about any of those 6 ideas, or if you want to suggest other module ideas

The stage is yours

Simon

Hey Simon!

Any chance you might include the tempo follower algorithm? That really would be the main thing I wish for the Midronome. And I'm sure that might make it a gamechanger and would enable several musicians to bridge electronic and organic/jam based music.
Please say yes.

Bogdan

I'm not sure how Ableton Link works, maybe that module would cover this, but I'm looking for functionality akin to the Acme-4 ( http://www.s-n-d.com/acme4e_a.html ) where by there's a few features involving the clock:


1) Ability to 'delay-start' (by a button) on the next whole bar (or better a specifiable sub interval)
2) Ability to dynamically clock shift in multiples of the chosen interval
3) [Like one of the modules you're proposing] Ability to slightly nudge the midi clock alignment back and forward relative to a master.

These types of controls a great for playing live with multiple grooveboxes that you need to stop and start in-sync, esp. when multiple performers are playing together live.

In my ideal world, there'd be a little 4x4 grid of 16 buttons (one for each midi channel) and a set of controls that'd modify the selected channels only.
with a module like this you'd probably sell me a few more units!

Great work on everything Simon. I love what you're doing with the designs and am so happy I've got one of your devices!

Dave

@Bogdan: yes that's the idea, after Ableton Link (in fact it might come on the same module). But as I've written many places this is not easy, and to be honest I am not 100% sure it's within my abilities. My idea has been to get the algorithm from Ableton, but that might also be a challenge in terms of time (things move really slow there) and money. And even if I do manage to get it, I still have to adapt it to make it run on a small embedded microprocessor (as opposed to a computer). So I'll do my best, let's see!


@Dave: Interesting indeed. I have heard about the ACME but I never looked more into it. Does it actually do Beat Detection? Their page says "Derives a highly accurate MIDI clock from any audio recording system" but I'm not sure how to understand that. Apart from that yes the swing and shift should be possible in the swing&shift module. The only thing are the "large shifts" (your point 2) but that could easily be added.
Note that I think the swing&shift module will only have positive shifting.

Regarding point 1, the Midronome already send play on the next bar when you press the Play button. As I understood the ACME can select how many bars to delay that, or to do it in a few beats instead? This could also easily be implemented in a module

Simon

Hey Simon, thanks so much for the Midronome and everything you've been doing to support! My module request is (i think) for Midi Thru, based on the two things i really need: clock and notes! For the Midronome to be the main clock in my setup, i need to have my main notes device (Arturia Keystep 37) be able to send note data to the Midronome, and have the notes then passed on with Midi Thru to several synth devices.... Ideally, i would be able to use the midi channel switching on the Keystep (notes sent to different devices on different midi channels) smoothly through the Midronome

i've been using the Keystep as master clock and midi notes up until now, but i'd rather that the Midronome do the job instead because i love IT so! Thanks again

The Dark Universe wrote: ↑17 Dec 2023, 17:57 i need to have my main notes device (Arturia Keystep 37) be able to send note data to the Midronome, and have the notes then passed on with Midi Thru to several synth devices....

Well you can already do this over USB - unless I misunderstood?
Simply send the MIDI data from your Keystep to the computer over USB, then use a software to forward these to "Midronome MIDI Out 1" (or 2) and the Midronome will merge these with the clock and send them to your devices. MIDI Forwarding software could be PocketMIDI on Mac or MidiOx (I never tried it though) on Windows.

The problem with this is the timing, as forwarding through the computer and through a USB cable two times will add latency and jitter to that MIDI Data. When it comes out, the MIDI input module will let you do the exact same but with a DIN-MIDI cable, without going through the computer anymore

Simon

r.e. the Swing and Latency module - the blurb says "2 MIDI Outputs" but will they be able to output DIN Sync or will there be an analog output so we can swing a DIN sync signal? Would be great to be able to swing an 808, 303 etc with a variable swing amount.

justmull wrote: ↑20 Dec 2023, 13:32 r.e. the Swing and Latency module - the blurb says "2 MIDI Outputs" but will they be able to output DIN Sync or will there be an analog output so we can swing a DIN sync signal? Would be great to be able to swing an 808, 303 etc with a variable swing amount.

My thoughts were MIDI only but this is a very good thought!

Hi Simon, thanks for responding to my Keystep 37 question.... Yeah i should have made that clear in my post, i am purely dawless and have never used a computer for making music, my setup is entirely computer-free! So the midi-thru function is super important to me, and i'm jazzed to hear that the Midi Module will be able to function as a Thru device! Thanks for everything

The Dark Universe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2023, 20:27 So the midi-thru function is super important to me, and i'm jazzed to hear that the Midi Module will be able to function as a Thru device!

Awesome
And yes the MIDI input module is just what you need then

Simon

Hello Simon,

What do you think of this add-on suggestion? Midronome has an analog clock output, but for many analog sequencers, you need a bit more than just the pulse. So I think of an add-on which has these (minijack) outputs:

Start output
Stop output
Reset output

And in addition, if there is space:

Wait input
Clock outputs: 1, 8, 16, 32, 96

This would be similar to the outputs of Doepfer A-190-8 Midi to Sync interface for eurorack. But for those of us who do not have Eurorack, this would be very handy to combine analog systems with the midi-clocked sequencers and synths.

Thanks for the suggestion

Are you aware about this feature which will come with Firmware 3.0? viewtopic.php?t=210

Care to explain a bit what you mean precisely?
Are Stop & Start a pulse or a gate? Ill assume Reset is like doing Stop+Start in one go.

And those clock output values, are they in ppq (parts per quarternote)?

Hi Simon, Ah I did not see that. That feature would cover some of the functions indeed. Reset would be a pulse that goes high when then the clock signal is stopped. This would have a connected analog sequencer jump back to position 1. So when the clock starts again, it runs from p1 and is aligned with the measures from other machines running along via midi clock.

The Doepfer works like this (copied from their manual), although I question the 'reset' explanation. Prefereably, the reset pulse should be sent when a clock signal is stopped. When it gets sent at the start, often the analog sequencer is one step to late in following or misses the first note. But it could be a selectable option in the firmware.

Clock outputs:
96: outputs the Midi clock 1:1 (96 pulses per measure/ppm or 24 pulses per quarter note/ppq)
32: outputs the Midi clock divided by 3 (32 pulses per measure/ppm or 8 pulses per quarter note/ppq)
16: outputs the Midi clock divided by 6 (16 pulses per measure/ppm or 4 pulses per quarter note/ppq)
8: outputs the Midi clock divided by 12 (8 pulses per measure/ppm or 2 pulses per quarter note/ppq)
1: outputs a pulse at the start of each measure

Other outputs:
Start: outputs a pulse at each Midi Start or Continue message or generates a gate signal that remains in the high state until a Midi Stop message occurs (selectable via jumper)
Stop: outputs a pulse at each Midi Stop message
Reset: outputs a pulse at each Midi Start message that follows a Midi Stop message

Wait control input, can be selected by means of a jumper between Gate function or Switch function: in Gate mode the positive edge of a gate signal is used to init the Wait state, in Switch mode an external switch that connects to GND is used to init the Wait state (equivalent to Switch-Trigger)
Wait button / Wait control input: Whenever the Wait button is operated or a positive voltage is applied to the Wait input the module waits for the next measure start until the clock signals are generated.

The nice thing about the various clock outputs is that you can combine different speeds that are synced. the wait function is interesting, since this could solve a common issue with (modular) sequencers that they run offbeat at some point and could be resynced this way without having to stop the running clock signal with a stop-start. So when the play button on Midronome is paused, a reset pulse is sent. clock pulses are paused, and when the play button is pressed again, the start output goes high and the clock pulses start again. I hope this makes sense).

Interesting thoughts, I'll definitely keep it all in mind when implementing that feature, in particular the reset input. Thank you very much for sharing

Just FYI, different speeds is already a thing on the Midronome, just look at the An.1 and An.2 settings

Simon

Hi Simon, did you / anyone get any further with the 'tap tempo' module idea ?

I recently picked up a Midronome and primarily needed it to sync' a Isla S2400 to Logic / Pro Tools, which is working perfectly.

It would also now save me a huge pain [an extra bit of kit of a similar price or a different delay pedal] if I can use it to set the tempo on a Electro Harmonix Memory Mann 1100TT.

I've seen a couple of posts elsewhere about normally open / normally closed tap tempo and add on modules, it's not something I currently have the capacity to get into doing myself so figured I'd ask here to see if you or anyone had any pointers ?

Thanks, Tim

Hey Tim

Yes it's definitely planned and will come in a few months hopefully. The modules have been slightly delayed by the coming release of FW 3.0, but they will get there eventually

Note that, at first, the modules will only be designs (which will be free), but I will guide you to fabricate them yourself

Simon

Totally understand the design only / guide build philosophy, that would work.

I'd got as far as briefly searching for existing circuits that could open / close the pedal loop based on an incoming audio signal, i.e. to potentially use the audio clock output. I don't quite have the time or expertise to tweak, test and fault find a design.

Look forward to seeing your suggestion, it'd be great if it's a simple in-line unit that doesn't require another external PSU but I'm likely naive to the complexity of circuit needed :0)

I'll keep an eye open for an update, thank you and keep up the great work !

Well actually the circuit could not be simpler, the module will simply attach to the current device, no other power supply needed (for now all modules will follow this idea actually).

The only difficulty is that MIDI Clock (sent on the Midronome's module interface as well, but it would be the same wth any external MIDI Clock -> pedal tap input converter) is sent 24 times per beat (24ppq), while most pedal expect 1 time per beat (1ppq)
And as there are other MIDI messages sent, it would be very difficult to make this without a microcontroller, since the MIDI data needs to be analyzed, and then counted so that the output sends at 1ppq while the module receives 24ppq (as well as ignoring the data).

Microcontroller circuits are very easy (take an arduino for example), the problem is that they need to be programmed
(as in not writing the code - this I'll probably do for you - but the actual upload of the compiled code onto the microcontroller, which is a costly operation for production, or an annoying one for DIY )

Simon

Simon wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 11:36 Well actually the circuit could not be simpler, the module will simply attach to the current device, no other power supply needed (for now all modules will follow this idea actually).

Just a side-question. What does it mean 'no other power supply'? Other than what?

I understood that as having the need for an additional power plug for the module, for example another USB port.
That will be the case for a big module that uses a lot of power which would be too much to get from the module interface.