Syncing Modular with DJ set

[Saw]

Hi there!
I've been experimenting with this in search for a reliable way to sync my modulars with a friend's DJ software. If that software was Ableton the issue would be already solved, as syncing with the U-Sync plugin is safe and tight. So, in order to look for the goal already mentioned I guess I could set that one to send MIDI clock to Midronome and have this one syncing my modulars, but as I read that FAQ about following audio pulses from devices, I thought I'd give audio sync tracks a try, as they should be more accurate and safe.

So I've been trying to get Midronome to follow Ableton without the plugin, with a 1 bar pulses file sent to the input in Midronome, hoping that I could use something like that in any DJ software. At first I used the old Sync File Generator to make 1 bar file, but it seems like didn't work properly. I assume that from Firmware 3.0 that is not the way to generate a sync file. The manual talks indeed about editing the track yourself, so I tried that.

After some failed attempts using CV Tools and other clock generators in Ableton, none of them worked (seemed difficult to match the right length of the pulse for the Midronome to be happy with those tools). I finally got a functional consolidated clip crafted from a short (<5ms) piece of audio 24 times in each beat. I could use it with the Warp activated and having the right bpm info (120 in this case), and Midronome started right away and at first there was some slight drift, but it kept a good tracking after fine adjusting the gain of the track.

However, as already pointed by some in the forum, as soon as you try to change the bpm slightly away from the original bpm of the sync track, it doesn't work at all. Midronome (surprisingly) gets the original bpm (120) even when Ableton was speeded up to 125, so both decouple sync to disaster.

To the FAQ about syncing "to anything else, DJ set, tape machine.." is answered that as long as "your device can play audio pulses at 24ppq on a dedicated audio output, then you can get the Midronome to follow the pulses. But, here my questions:

- Are these audio pulses supposed to be used in the original bpm in which they were created only? I suppose that DJ sets and tape machines are not expected to work in the same speed all the time, and that'd be the point to sync following them.
- Why Ableton warping into a different bpm makes the Midronome lose sync? What is so different in those warped pulses?
- How should those pulses be prepared for a DJ software in order to be able to follow bpm changes? Is this even possible with Midronome? Or could someone please elaborate on the proper method to get this?

Bonus questions!:
- Is it possible to change the bpm in the DAW from the Midronome's encoder when the DAW is the master? As far as I know the MIDI commands are for Midronome to receive but not the other way around, right?

Thanks in advance!

[Simon]

However, as already pointed by some in the forum, as soon as you try to change the bpm slightly away from the original bpm of the sync track, it doesn't work at all. Midronome (surprisingly) gets the original bpm (120) even when Ableton was speeded up to 125, so both decouple sync to disaster.

Hi

Great research and well done with the progress, you made it a long way all by yourself!

First point: you can still use the old "MidroSync" and the sync file generator with FW 3.0. But on your Midronome you should set the "inP" setting to "Syn" and not "24P". See the Midronome User Guide section 6. But since you got it working with simple pulses and with the 24P mode, I suggest you keep using that.

To the FAQ about syncing "to anything else, DJ set, tape machine.." is answered that as long as "your device can play audio pulses at 24ppq on a dedicated audio output, then you can get the Midronome to follow the pulses.

You're all correct, and yes all you need is the right pulses. Trust me the Midronome works, if you send the right pulses it will follow them precisely. So my guess is something is going wrong with the pulses, I remember Ableton not being the greatest at stretching the pulses correctly based on your tempo.

If I remember well the best settings are to warp enable, no fades, and set to "re-pitch" for the pulses/sync track. See this old video: https://youtu.be/R-tWpy4XJIY?t=121

Midronome started right away and at first there was some slight drift

These can happen if the pulses are not "loud" or sharp enough, or if you have fades on your clips. It could also be the stretching. Basically, and typically, the first pulse gets crushed so the Midronome only recognizes the second one, which creates a 1/24th beat delay.



As for your questions:
-> Are these audio pulses supposed to be used in the original bpm in which they were created only?
pulses should be at your session's tempo, sent at 24ppq. If your session's tempo changes, then they should change as well. Try printing/recording the sync track to see if it is correct.

-> Are these audio pulses supposed to be used in the original bpm in which they were created only?
Warped pulses are stretched and this can create problems: the pulses can get too "thin" or too "large", and depending on how they are stretched 2 pulses could be too far apart which the Midronome would detect as a tempo < 30 BPM and will stop syncing. Generally I would recommend to start with a "middle" tempo and not stretch too far from it. Meaning if your tempos are from 110 to 230, use a base sync file at 165bpm for example.

- How should those pulses be prepared for a DJ software in order to be able to follow bpm changes?
This I don't know, but I guess most DJ software can stretch audio files? Try to gather one bar of pulses at 120bpm, and tell your DJ software to loop it and stretch it to the correct tempo.

- Is it possible to change the bpm in the DAW from the Midronome's encoder when the DAW is the master?
It would be possible if your DAW accepts MIDI commands to change its tempo (just like the Midronome does). To my knowledge, no DAW has that feature at the moment.

Simon